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Which boiler?

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Just wondering if anyone can give recommendations for our replacement boiler?
We are looking at the Ideal Vogue which has a lot of good reviews, stainless steel heat exchanger, 10'year warranty with Ideals own filter.
Also looking at Baxi Platinum but have read a couple of bad reviews concerning noise.
Will consider Worcester Bosch but many say they have a lot of internal plastic parts.

Which make do you have and how would you rate it?

Also, does anyone have any experience of the Honeywell evohome controls with the wifi controlled radiator valves? Any good?

Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

Gav

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Reply #1

Hi Steve , The Ideal is a good boiler , we fit a lot of ideal boilers (although mainly the commercial evomax and bigger cast iron sectional boilers) , and have very little bother with them . For domestic boilers we'd normally fit a worcester as they are also very reliable and also came with a long warranty . There has been a couple of the newer Worcester models I've not been quite as impressed with the internal layout and casings and that if the combustion readings go out now you are not to simply adjust the gas valve but replace it !!
The baxi I'd simply stay away from , some models would suffer from the condensate trap regularly choking which prevents the condensate running away , filling the combustion chamber and running out through the fan , which subsequently requires replacement .
The Honeywell evohome controls are a good idea , ive not fitted any as of yet but I have been considering them for my own house , I'm just holding out for a better price as I feel there a bit on the expensive side for what you get at the moment even at trade prices . I still need to do the workings with cost against savings in fuel and see how cost effective it works out .

And just to add my own boiler is a worcester 😁 , i'd happily have the Ideal , but stay clear of the Baxi .
Last Edit: Dec 9, 2017 8:59:43 am by Gav

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Steveanem

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Reply #2

Hi Gav. Thanks very much for taking the time to reply. Plenty of food for thought there.
I was talking to my neighbour today and he was telling me he has a very old Ideal boiler (a Kingfisher he thinks). The original back boiler I think, they have been in that house 48 years so possibly the original boiler and still going strong!
I did hear that Ideal have now started using more composite/plastic instead of brass fittings within the Vogue, but I still think it appears to be a decent, value for money boiler.

One thing I would ask though, is, do you think a decent sized combi or a smaller system boiler and unvented cylinder for a 4 bed house with main bathroom and en suite shower room ( 1 bath, 2 showers).
I am getting around 14 to 15 litres a minute from the cold mains into the house ATM.

Would it make a noticeable difference to have the cylinder with regards to pressure stability/flow at the taps?

I figured if I got the Vogue c40 rated at 16.4 litres with a rise of 35C, then I would possibly get an improved rise of around 40C with our slightly lower flow?

Thanks.

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Gav

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Reply #3

Hi Steve , yeah if your neighbours boiler is a kingfisher it will be a fair age , they were made by a company called potterton, they only have a few parts which make them pretty reliable , two stats , a gas valve , thermocouple , burners and a cast iron heat exchanger , not full of electronics like today's boilers , so not much to go wrong , but not very efficient by today's standards . The Ideal equivalent to the kingfisher was a model called 'mexico' , with similar setup . If it's a back boiler then it will probably be a Baxi . A back boiler is situated within a fireplace as opposed to a freestanding unit like a kingfisher .
Most of the boilers these days are full of composite plastics , some don't even have nuts on the fittings but are held in place with a O ring and circlips . To be fair I wouldn't say I've ever really had any problems with the plastic parts breaking or cracking in any of the boilers mentioned .
The heat exchangers on the new boilers are all either stainless steel or cast aluminium . I prefer the s/s as I find the condensate trap on the aluminium heat exchangers always fills with an aluminium paste caused by the condensate 'eating' the aluminium , it is a dilute sulphuric acid after all !! so make sure this gets plumbed to a drain and lime treated before it with a condensafe . Condensate eats / disolves concrete and copper over time so drains must be run in plastic .
With a house of that size I'd always recommend a cylinder , IMO combis are better suited to smaller properties that just don't have the space for a cylinder , there's also the advantage that should the boiler ever break down you will still have the immersion heater to heat the cylinder . The worst of combi's is having to throttle back the water flow at colder times of the year to get a decent rise in temperature due to the incoming main water being colder . This takes ages to fill a bath .
As an example in the summer the incoming may be around 15° , with a 40° degree rise @15lpm this gives 55° water at the tap . In the winter the incoming may only be 5° , which with the 40° rise only heats to 45° @15lpm , to get the extra heat into the water the flow rate has to be reduced so to achieve 55° you would need to run the tap slower , quite probably bellow 10lpm .
Should you decide on a combi I would also recommend looking at the existing piping of the hot water to the taps especially if you are on a water meter , I'd have the pipes resized to suit the combi and the runs to each tap made as short as possible , this saves having to run off loads of cold water before the hot reaches the tap . For most combi's it will recommend this in the instructions as the DHW pipes will probably be 15mm in and out of the combi , a lot of plumbers will connect the 15mm to the existing house which is normally 22mm , which creates the larger amount of water requiring being drawn off as above.
With a cylinder the water will be what ever you set the stats to normally around 60° - 65° regardless of the incoming temperature , the water will always heat to this and the flow rate at the tap will always be consistent . The plumbing to and from the cylinder will also be 22mm , so will be of correct size to any existing plumbing .
IMO you will notice the difference between the two with the cylinder being the better of the two .

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Gav

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Reply #4

Also ... A couple of other things you could consider are , for the Ideal boiler a weather compensation kit is available , this works on the heating system circuit and alters the flow temperature of the radiators depending on the outside temperature , the colder it gets outside the hotter the radiators get and vice versa , warmer outside cooler radiators . The kit is under £30 , Good for lowering the gas bill !!
If you choose a cylinder and have a south facing roof solar panels to heat the hot water could also be a consideration , even if you don't choose to fit straight away , a cylinder would need to be chosen with the extra coil inside to accommodate the pipework from the panels should you wish in the future . This would also save you gas .

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Steveanem

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Reply #5

Well we were lucky enough to be able to find someone who was able to replace our boiler before Christmas! They had it fitted and working on Tuesday.
We went with a combi in the end, the Worcester Bosch Greenstar 38cdi Classic, and we have a lovely warm home and plenty of piping hot water.
It is really quiet too you can hardly tell it's running even when it fires up.
So am glad to see the back of the 3kW fan heater that Emma had on constantly whilst ever she was home!  :O



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