Graeme's 6x2x2 900L

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Mike

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Reply #15

Me neither, it seems like a failsafe in case your failsafes don't fail safely, but never seen it before and it's interesting. If you've a drain handy for it, I'd certainly rather it go down that than on the floor.

Besides, if it is going down a drain, couldn't it double act as a waste disposal? Somewhere to dump PWC water, test water, etc?
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HK_Fuey

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Reply #16

You're right, the overflow in the sump, should NEVER be needed for flooding, as in that capacity, it is just a failsafe on top of other failsafes.  However, it cost me nothing to add, so if my weir were to fail, or my ATU failed and emptied into the tank, etc. there's somewhere for that water to go, rather than onto my kitchen floor.  It's not currently connected to anything - it just pours out onto the grass.  I wanted to connect it to the gutter pipe, but was told I have to check if the gutter drain links up to the waste pipe.  If it does, then I will do that, if not, I'm not allowed to put dirty water down the gutter drain (apparently, rain water gets kept separate and treated differently sometimes).

The other reason for having it, like you said, is for water changes, emptying the skimmate into, etc.
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HK_Fuey

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Reply #17

[Edit]I posted a video which showed a problem I may have, but didn't give the full picture, and could leave people thinking Aquariums4Life were at fault for it.  I've redone the video to better explain my situation, which I think is a combination of misunderstandings between me and Aquariums4Life.  My custom sump design, was designed by me (copied from Mike) with my old weir style in mind.  Their weir/drain system, requires more space in the sump that I had planned for.  Lucy and Ian did challenge my sump design, but it never entered my head that the weir might be different, so I assured them it's what I wanted, and that's what I got.

My apologies to @Ian Dashfield and Lucy for any misunderstanding[/Edit]


Here's a (new) video to explain and show you the tank:
Last Edit: Apr 17, 2016 7:39:25 pm by HK_Fuey
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Marty

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Reply #18

That has some really high baffles in sump it don't actually give much room for syphon once pumps are off maybe that is why there is a drain.

 I can't say I've ever seen baffles that high. Mine have a decent height from top so gives plenty of space.

HK_Fuey

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Reply #19

I copied Mike's design for the sump, and in theory, if the weir was higher, there should only be a very small amount siphoned down.  Having the weir lower than the pipe inside the weir was unexpected, and has meant the sump will fill to within a couple of mm from the top now!
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Mike

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Reply #20

The baffles are high, it holds a lot of water, which is great. In my 6ft, it easily had enough room when the power was cut. I don't like shallow sumps, seems like a missed trick.

Aren't those pipes in the weir adjustable? Or if not, could be extended?
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Mike

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Reply #21

Ah, just watched your video. I've never seen that before either. So is the issue that the return siphon doesn't stop? I don't understand why it fills the sump so high when the power stops?
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HK_Fuey

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Reply #22

Ah, just watched your video. I've never seen that before either. So is the issue that the return siphon doesn't stop? I don't understand why it fills the sump so high when the power stops?
There are two issue: 
1. The weir is lower than I had imagined it.  It's under the edge of the hood by about 1cm, so it means about an inch of water will drain off the top of the tank when the return pump is off.  That's 26L alone!  I planned on only half of that.
2. The next thing is that as the weir is lower than the running height of the water in the DT, the surface will not get skimmed/cleared.  The main drain will be a couple of inches under the surface, and the durso emergency suck in water from below the surface too.  Not sure how to resolve that without changing the height of the weir - any ideas?

I might cut some acrylic and increase the height of the weir.  That'll mean far less water draining down, and the surface will get cleared.  I'll give drilling a hole in the return a go to break the siphon.  I could also change the pipe so the emergency clears the surface in the weir (back to standard herbie method), but I'll give this a try first.

[Edit] This is a comment I made before I realised it was due to the assumption that the weir would be the same as my old weir that I had these issues.  If you chose to go with the Aquariums4Life weir, drains, and sump design, it would all work together.  Again, my apologies for getting it wrong.
Quote
I'm kind of annoyed they didn't build it how I asked though - I sent a detailed diagram showing exactly how I wanted it.  This is just a load of faff I didn't expect, and it means it's going to take longer to get it all up and running.
[/Edit][/i]
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Marty

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Reply #23

I would be asking for a partial refund then simple as that if it's not "exactly" as you the customer wanted you are well within your rights to as well.
[Edit - by Graeme] Comment made before I put the edits in above[/Edit]

HK_Fuey

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Reply #24

I've just finished refreshing everything in the RODI unit, got 000 TDS readout.  I've given the tank a quick wipe over inside, and I've started to fill it 8D

Also, I did a lot of measuring up earlier today (down the the nearest mm), to check the issue with water draining down more than I planned would fit in the sump.  I worked out that allowing for 1cm above each baffle, that the running volume of the sump will be barely under 200L, so that means 900L of water total (having taken into account sand, rock, etc.)  :D
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Asco1104

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Reply #25

It's a shame when you have to mess around with things that asked for.

I think you are right I would rip both standpipes out, ditch the durso and set up how you have you old tank.

Only thing have done differently is(and it's just my personal preference) I run the emergency drain dry, not for the reason of algae growing or anything, I just found it easier to balance and you don't get the trickle noise, by running it lower my water level in the wier is a couple of inches lower so I get a better exchange of gases as the water falls but no noise still, if you go to low then you get a trickle noise so you have to find the sweet spot.

Like Marty said go back to them and complain, it might pay for so new live stock ;)

[Edit]As above, comments made before the edits[/Edit]
Last Edit: Apr 17, 2016 7:55:38 pm by HK_Fuey

HK_Fuey

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Reply #26

I will discuss it with them, as the return is just nothing like I asked for.  The issue with the weir height, they could argue I never specified, and that's how they always do it (fair enough, as with their standard sump, there'd be tonnes of spare capacity), but I did show them how I wanted the drains and return, so it all worked as a system, and this weir just doesn't allow that.  This design uses the durso to set the water height - it's odd, and I've never seen it before, so it threw me.  It didn't click until the next morning that it was going to cause problems.
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Ian Dashfield

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Reply #27

Hi, I am Ian who owns Aquariums4life, I built this aquarium and sump.
Please allow me to explain the drains and sump design etc.
The sump design ,in my opinion is a bad idea. It allows very little space for water to drain back from the aquarium to the sump. Both Lucy and myself voiced our concerns to you regarding the sump but you insisted upon it.
The return pipe which is fed back into the aquarium at the opposite end to the weir has a duck bill fitted above the weir comb line to ensure it cant back syphon when the power is cut to the return pump.
The return pipe on your smaller aquarium is under very little pressure, which is why it can be attached the way it is, this aquarium should be running almost 10,000 litres per hour. If i was to simply attach an elbow to the end of the pipe with the use of ptfe tape (as you wanted), it would be certain to be blown off with the pressure. This is why it must be solvent welded.
This aquarium is 6ft in length and 27" in height, to just drop a return pipe next to the weir is not going to create any flow at all, that is why it is placed at the opposite end and achieves a better flow than your existing aquarium return pipe.
The weir is built at the correct height for your height of aquarium. This aquarium runs at almost 1000 litre capacity so must be plumbed in a way to allow the maximum flow rate through it whilst keeping the water movement as quiet as possible.
The reason for the 1" of water running through the weir comb is to allow as much water as possible through without the water in the weir dropping and gurgling etc. If this aquarium was to have the same weir fitted as your other aquarium it would not allow anywhere near enough flow of water through it.
I fail to see how you can review our weir and pipework on youtube when you have not even filled the aquarium and used it yet!
The twin drain durso system is by far one of the easiest and quietest systems for large aquarium,s but if it is not to your liking i will happily send you a piece of pipe to revert you back to the herbie system.
Your video is potentially damaging to my business as potential customers may watch this video and presume that we build all our sumps like yours. You do not advice anybody that it is your design and that we just built what you insisted on. You also make out that there is a problem with our weirs and pipework and this is not the case.
We are open 7 days a week and you can call us anytime to discuss any problems you have.

Marty

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Reply #28

First off hello Ian and welcome

It's nice to have a company pop up and explain there product hopefully you will stick around as there is always members asking about tanks ect so may well be worth your while.

I can't complain at all about the quality of the build and cabinet ect looking at the pictures as it does look stunning,  I did however struggle to understand why the sump baffles where so tall and a sump having an emergency overflow but if that was how it was requested then I can understand that. Myself personally prefer to have lower baffles and gives a better fail safe in the event of power cut and syphon back ect.

Hopefully between yourselves you can sort any teething issues there is and all will be fine and will look amazing once it's all up and running.

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Mike

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Reply #29

Hi, Ian.

Regarding the sump, it's a clone of my sump design, which ran absolutely perfectly for years. It gives added overall running volume for the 99.9999% of the time the tank has power, and when the power does fail, it'd easily take all water that'd siphon down, leaving a couple of inches spare.

Graeme is upset as the weir isn't as was asked for and that's now meant the sump's high running volume could be problematic. It was a custom build, and had it been done to specification, the sump's volume wouldn't have been an issue.

I think the "head" over the weir is due to the massive amount of turnover you planned for the tank, but I think that's far more than is necessary. If it was run at around 5x turnover, there'd be less than half the head over the weir, and much less to drain down in a power cut.

If you read the entire thread, you'll see that Graeme is thrilled with the tank and build quality, it's only the deviation from the spec that's caused an issue. So I wouldn't take it as a negative at all, everyone knows that the sump was a custom design, they also know it wasn't made up off the top of his head untested, it was running for years in my system, with many photos and videos to prove it.
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