Why are my fish dying?

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I have had a bumpy start but have "what i thought" was a stable tank now.  I monitor daily with the seneye - nothing is out of what, all pretty constant.  I run at 26C maybe 1 Deg to hight but it's constant, my ammonia sits  0.001 and ph 8.26 -8.3. Ph is little on high side but constant again and as i understand higher is better than lower.

As per mentioned bumpy start, i have 100L tank have a bunch of snails 3 hermit crabs, 1 fire shrimp and i clownfish (survivor of a pair after the power cut while away dropped to 16C for 3 days).  For the last 2 weeks i have been cautious not to add any additives just fed frozen food twice a day.

(20% water change per week last one on Sat) All looked good, then tonight i came home to find shrimp and crabs eating the clownfish.  I took it out checked the readings and did water test:

Salinity    Ph   Alkalinity ppm   NO2/Nitrite   NH3   NH4   Phosphorus   calcium ppm
0.025   8.28   150                          0.02         0.001   9.28   0.72            523

My internal skimmer looks like it's ok (see pics - last cleaned sat)

i have no idea why the clownfish died - as far as my limited experience and checking everything is ok.  The phosphorus is high and i am starting to see some hair algae, but nothing major and was going to add some red sea treatment for that soon,  Either way i did not think that would be the cause.

Any ideas as i am close to giving up here it's been a bad 6 months for any fish that are unfortunate to come across me :-(


Gav

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Reply #1

As far as fish are concerned , water parameters are far more forgiving , although yours all seem fine (providing it's a miss print in salinity and alk) , if there was a poisoning water quality (eg. contamination from out with the tank)  I'd think it would be inverts dead first as they are generally more sensitive . This could maybe suggest fish disease or parasite , possibly internal if there were no visible signs on the outside of the fish .

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chilliman

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Reply #2

i have prob misread how these seneye works but should the salinity read 1.025 than 0.025 ?

rik derris

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Reply #3

i have prob misread how these seneye works but should the salinity read 1.025 than 0.025 ?
Yes sorry that was my poor typing 1.025


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ajm83

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Reply #4

Woah, is the NH4 really 9.28 PPM  !?  That'll be a major issue, but may be from the clownfish dying rather than the cause IYSWIM.

All the rest looks okay,  150ppm alk is around 8 dKH (multiply by 0.056 to convert).

Can you double check the figure on the seneye?  (Maybe it's meant to be read 0.0928 ?)

Personally I'd put some Polyfilter (not just normal floss) in ASAP  :   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARCADIA-POLYFILTER-STANDARD-8x4-EXTERNAL-FILTER-SUMP-MEDIA-REEF-MARINE-FISH-TANK-/190626333511

It will help sort out your phosphate ammonium and anything toxic, e.g. metals.

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rik derris

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Reply #5

Woah, is the NH4 really 9.28 PPM  !?  That'll be a major issue, but may be from the clownfish dying rather than the cause IYSWIM.

All the rest looks okay,  150ppm alk is around 8 dKH (multiply by 0.056 to convert).

Can you double check the figure on the seneye?  (Maybe it's meant to be read 0.0928 ?)
d


The Nh4 reading is ppb not ppm which is why it seems high if i /1000 i will get the ppm (i think!)  0.00928 which I  imagine is what you would expect to see.

I hooked the dead fish out very quickly as have been watching tank closely (not closely enough it seems) it has started to rise a bit overnight so it continues will do a water change tonight.

I have a chemipure bag with a few months left in it but will get the media you recommended and switch it out. 

Is there any way to test for disease?  The fish looked fine and i'm out of ideas as i thought i was doing all i can but still get the same result.  I'm being to question my earlier failers may actually be this (bar the power cut).  I buy all my fish and water from LFS  so it's all vey consistent and i didn't think i introduced anything random.

After the 3 days at 16C all the coral dies off too but the mushrooms looked possibly savable - After 2 weeks these have bounced back really well and a small rock with some Xenia has suddenly started to grow again too.  That with what i can see from monitoring the water to indicated the water and chemistry is fine?!




ajm83

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Reply #6

yes that makes more sense mate.  Should be fine as long as it doesn't keep going up.

Were there any signs of disease or stress on the dead fish? Things like swollen or red gills, ragged fins, spots etc or was it already too far gone to see?


I've been in exactly the same position as you,  my central heating went offline when I was on holiday, house dropped to 5c and the heater couldn't cope.  Lost almost everything aside from my mushrooms and one hammer.  Then I restocked and then added another fish a while later from a trusted LFS.  It introduced velvet and I lost the lot again.  :evil-plan: 

What precautions are you taking when adding fish etc?  After I went through my wipeouts,  everything gets quarantined and treated prophylactically,  not sure I can handle another one.

rik derris

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Reply #7

It did seem fine to my ammeter eye, no ragged fins or gills as far as i could see.  I will get another clown and start to take pictures every day or so in case i am missing something / also i can then zoom in and take a closer look.  There is a high chance I will have missed something as I was concentrating on the water parameters and diseases was last thing I was considering.  I (naively / wanted to believe) thought that was only an issue form buying online or untrusted FS

i have a small tank 100 and no sump all internal skimmer and as it's an old Jewl tropical take use the inbuilt filter to house filtration media.  I don't have the space for a quarantine tank.  The only peculation’s I take is buying everything from the one LFS.

Are there treatments / producers  I can carry out shot term with a sample of the water from the tank in a small suitable container with just a heater for a short time?

Also are there any good references where I could learn how to spot these?  I found this so far https://www.fishlore.com/Disease_Saltwater.htm

Thanks!

rik derris

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Reply #8

I still had the unfortunate fish in the green bin - he was eaten a bit so not sure if you can see anything other than that





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ajm83

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Reply #9

I can't tell anything from those pics I'm afraid.

Are there treatments / producers  I can carry out shot term with a sample of the water from the tank in a small suitable container with just a heater for a short time?

I'm in the same boat with lack of space for extra tanks, so what i do for quarantine is put the fish in one of these:


Mine is 30L in size and food safe (wine glass and fork symbol on it). Cost about a £5er.   It will hold the water fine, but I don't suggest you move it while full!  (Note - I checked mine by filling it in the garden first - just in case!!)

I use a small internal filter with some cycled media and a little heater.  I have some cheap decorations from Pets at Home in there to give them some hiding places.

Then for quarantine I do a week or so of settling in and getting them to eat. 
Next I do a course of Discus Fluke Solve (praziquantel) for flukes and some common types of worms. 
After that I do a full water change (2 x 50%) then a course of Seachem Cupramine. This eliminates velvet, ich and something else I've forgotten.

It takes about 5 weeks in total for all of that.

If I see other illnesses during that time,  I will look up the symptoms and treat as needed, but all my fish go through the above whether or not they show symptoms. as those diseases are just so rife in the hobby.
PITA TBH but needs must.  When finished don't put the media back in the main tank in case the copper etc leaches out of it.

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rik derris

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Reply #10

Just wanted to update this with my thanks.  I was not really able to to spend the time at the point of post to set up a quarantine tank so semi shut down my tank.  I left the filers on and water changes about 4 weeks (no fish just clear crew of snail & crabs) light feeding. 


The corals came back & replaced lighting and tank setup/arrangement  for much easier access & maintenance.  The benefit of this has been great and now everything is all healthy and was ready to add fish ...


I used the method above but after fish were introduced i have broken it all down as don't intend adding any more for some time. 


Everything is all good for about 7 weeks now, i do have some GHA appearing but assume this must be down to lighting (i test fo nutrients and all in line) [size=78%]so may have to cut back on that - anyway plenty of posts on here to read about that![/size]
[/size]
[/size]Thanks[size=78%][/size][size=78%] again for all the help :-D[/size]

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