cant balance water level between sump and display tank

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Hello!

i recently diy'd a sump to my tank and cant get the water level to stay constant! it will either overflow the display tank or drain then fill up again. i have gate valves on both intake and return. im adjusting the valves but even if i turn the valve a few milimetres within 5 minutes you will see that water level has gradually changed. why cant i get it to stay?😩i dont have an overflow box. it's literally pipes coming from tank to sump.

pump im using is jecod dcp-2500

ajm83

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Reply #1

Can you try something for me?

Switch the return pump power off and allow the water to complete settle. 
Open the valve on the intake/drain (left) up fully.
Restrict the valve on the return pump line (right) quite a lot,  80% or so (to make sure it doesn't overwhelm the drain). Power the return pump back on. 
Watch and adjust the valve on the return (right) so the water line stays roughly a quarter to half way up the intake like this (keep the drain/left valve completely open):



Once it's roughly right, it should self adjust within reason.
Last Edit: Jan 20, 2020 10:18:50 pm by ajm83

ajm83

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Reply #2

If that works,  you can make a quieter version (also raise the water level back to where it was) by adding an overflow box like this:  https://www.amazon.com/Eclipse-Overflow-Box-Medium-Eshopps/dp/B01LY2NGZ0/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=overflow+box+kit&qid=1579558467&sr=8-5

So you can then have one drain pipe running in full syphon (therefore quiet) and one carrying just a trickle to automatically adjust the level. 

The other benefit is that it will skim the surface so you don't get oil building up.
Last Edit: Jan 20, 2020 10:19:20 pm by ajm83

baekhsong

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Reply #3

i realised the return pump isnt catching up with the drain when i leave valve on drain fully open. i think i need a stronger pump?

fr499y

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Reply #4

When i ran a single drain/return i made sure the drain didn't go into the water and that it had a bend before hitting the sump. This stopped it from backing up and suddenly gurgling down! Also, ran the return at about 1500lph which helped. Then switched to a x-aqua that allowed 3000lph without any issues.

The drain pipe really needs to be bigger than the return, so it can handle the flow.

baekhsong

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Reply #5

i recorded a time lapse of the water level. this is both valves fully open. i think the water level DOES remain constant but the drain pipe bulkhead isnt fully submerged in water so it gurgles. you can see a small whirlpool starts above the drain.

Last Edit: Jan 21, 2020 10:14:14 am by baekhsong

baekhsong

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Reply #6

When i ran a single drain/return i made sure the drain didn't go into the water and that it had a bend before hitting the sump. This stopped it from backing up and suddenly gurgling down! Also, ran the return at about 1500lph which helped. Then switched to a x-aqua that allowed 3000lph without any issues.

The drain pipe really needs to be bigger than the return, so it can handle the flow.

i figured if i had valves on both i would be able to tweak the strength of the flow rather than doing 2 different size pipes. what do you mean it had a bend before hitting the sump? i have my drain pipe going straight down then a 45 elbow to go into the cupboard and 45 elbow again to go down.

fr499y

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Reply #7

using silicone pipework and not hard plumbed. The drain really should be bigger than the return. as a test, put some air hose into the drain pipe ( as in, sticking above tank so it can suck in air ) so its a couple inches in. keep an eye on it and see if the gurgling stops. This was the only way i could get the standard TMC drain to shut up before finally given up and buying a X-Aqua.

baekhsong

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Reply #8

using silicone pipework and not hard plumbed. The drain really should be bigger than the return. as a test, put some air hose into the drain pipe ( as in, sticking above tank so it can suck in air ) so its a couple inches in. keep an eye on it and see if the gurgling stops. This was the only way i could get the standard TMC drain to shut up before finally given up and buying a X-Aqua.

ahh yes i know now. ive seen it done a lot to silence the drain. but will that work even if the bulkhead is not submerged?

baekhsong

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Reply #9

i  dont know if you can see but this is how i tried the air hose. i borrowed that piece from my eheim pick up. unfortunately it didnt do anything :^( i will have to do an overflow box. i would like to diy because my bulkheads are already drilled. one thing though. there is extra glass at the top which means if i add a weir box i will not be able to unscrew the bulkhead if ill need to. can i still do overflow box without weir box? so just an acrylic box with 2 pipes on the outside. i would need to get an acrylic box from somewhere and drill it myself. closest i found so far are acrylic display cases. something of this size would fit behind my tank but not sure how deep it's suppose to be? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tingacraft-Acrylic-Display-Dustproof-Action/dp/B01JFNU86S?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_13
Last Edit: Jan 22, 2020 10:24:55 am by baekhsong

baekhsong

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Reply #10

oof. i think my overflow box is too shallow. is this whats causing the gurgling? its so loud its like somebody is flushing the toilet all the time! the water level is different between display tank and overflow box. is this because the intake hole is same as return?





Gav

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Reply #11

Try shutting the gate valve a smidge more , this should help raise the level in the overflow box , and extend the height of the emergency drain to an upper / maximum level within the Weir box .

Sandsifter

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Reply #12

I have a similar problem in that I have the loud gurgling noise coming from the drain chamber to the sump and then in the sump I can’t seem to reduce the level in the first chamber to the line level without the return pump running out of water but yet maintains the flow and levels with the amount of water I have above the line level ?


 

baekhsong

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Reply #13

ok so late update. i didnt know that you can run herbie overflow wet by letting water tricle into emergy drain. it is much quieter now but the water level still doesnt stay constant. it gradually either rises, causing loud trickling down the emergency drain, or drains and causes main drain to flush. now im wondering if this could have something to do with my return pump Jecod Jeboa 2500 Marine Return Pump. its advertised as having sine wave technology. could it be that 'sine wave' tech thats causing this irregular water level movement?


https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PB28KFW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

ajm83

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Reply #14

Wouldn't have thought so, that's usually to make the pump quieter (but it still runs at a constant rate).

Silly question, but now you've got the herbie set up properly,  have you tried turning the speed on the pump down?

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